Christian memes, funny christian memes, memes
September 1, 2016 at 15:08
Hmmm. Seems to work both ways. 🙂
LikeLiked by 1 person
September 1, 2016 at 15:57
September 1, 2016 at 16:15
**scratches head** I’ve always been curious as to why…being thought of as intolerant by folks who just can’t accept me (and my beliefs) as I am, always makes me wonder…
September 1, 2016 at 16:19
Yep me too Marijo
September 1, 2016 at 16:38
Expanding from what Sue said above – I always find it so interesting the way these things work…
There’s no such thing as tolerance – atheists preach it more than most, but everyone is intolerant to something.
Same with faith – unbelievers have faith in their unbelief. Unbelief is simply faith in the opposite direction. So I usually smile when I’m told I believe by faith… well duh… everyone believes by faith …even atheists.
September 1, 2016 at 16:52
No kidding right. As if saying I have faith somehow insults me
I should just say thanks when somebody says that
September 1, 2016 at 16:56
I see a little know-it-all keep wielding it as just that – an insult… which is quite laughable.
I agree, “thank you”… and move on (the wind’s been removed from their sails)
September 1, 2016 at 17:45
I disagree theancients because religious faith is about an ideology, worship and a way of life that has a God and a reward not based on the physical world, therefore faith has to be a prerequisite. Atheists simply have no believe in anything like gods and deities, therefore faith is not such an issue because atheism is not a system of set beliefs or rules and rewards based outside of physical reality but based on what we can see and understand. As we were born atheists it is the default state of mind.
September 1, 2016 at 18:14
What does it mean – you have no belief in gods etc.
Am I to understand you lack belief in your atheism?
Atheism is an ideology/ a philosophy/ a world view.
Aren’t you accepting your “lack of belief” by faith. You cannot say with 100% certainty that there is absolutely no God or gods in the universe, so it’s quite clear to me your conclusion is based upon faith in what you’ve been told or researched for yourself.
As you’ve alluded – you do not acknowledge anything outside of the physical world (which is odd because you have no idea what gravity, consciousness, energy, electromagnetism, etc. are.)
No one is born a fool.
September 2, 2016 at 00:21
Atheism is cannot be anything like an ideology or philosophy because it can be construed as any belief you like such as alien masters, leprechauns or we live inside a bubble blown by a giant kid where an individual or group may have some faith in their concept or belief but do not have faith in atheism per-se.
To be an ideology it must be based on a doctrine of ideas or beliefs and must provide guidance to the followers but neither is true of atheism. Atheism also cannot be a philosophy for the same reason. It does not have a single belief or a system of interrelated and organised beliefs and atheism does not have any rules and regulations or guide anyone anywhere. Atheism cannot be termed singularly as anything, however it can be accepted as an element within an ideology, philosophy or world view.
Atheists I believe are the most extreme at claiming no gods exist or ever existed, atheist-agnostics are slightly different as are anti-theists, non-theists etc. and you can check those differences out if you wish. Even if nobody can say for 100% a god does not exist the idea that 95% of certainty is based on faith is an untenable argument when you consider this view is overwhelmingly supported by globally accepted scientific evidence. However, nobody should rule out even the most unlikely events, even scientists leave a margin for error.
If I am not wrong, practicing theists profess their faith in their particular god to nurture and guide them through life, provide comfort and hear their prayers etc. Therefore, religious faith is as much to do with their gods’ actions as it is to do with his existence and it would be reasonable to say practically all religions are faith based ideologies and atheism is not a faith based ideology, wouldn’t you agree?
The physical world does not always make sense and forces cannot be touched or seen, however we see the effects of gravity or energy and scientists have discovered the causes and processes from many techniques of investigation and experimentation making it eventually understandable and factual.
You say “No one is born a fool,” so true it is something we learn.
September 2, 2016 at 15:39
Of course atheism is an ideology – the set of ideas and beliefs of a group or political party
a philosophy – a particular set of ideas about knowledge, truth, the nature and meaning of life, etc .
So, just like Christianity, atheists hold myriad views. However one could say they hold to the fundamental view that there is no God or gods.
Online definition: Atheist -disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods.
If a person doesn’t know or is not sure about the existence of God or gods, then that person is an agnostic.
These days, no one wants to be seen as an agnostic as they know they’re identifying as someone who is unsure even of their own convictions and unbelief – who wants to be in that boat? Absolutely no one… so the agnostic foolishly claims to be an atheist, further muddying the already incoherent definition of atheism.
The reality is, all worldviews, all belief systems are faith based, and that includes your atheism.
Even if you were 100% certain there is no God or gods, it would still be based on faith in whatever guarantees you that 100% certainty.
Having some knowledge about the effects of gravity, electromagnetism, consciousness, energy etc. does not mean you know what it is… and as it currently stands, scientists have no idea what they are much less whether or not they’re properties of another dimension.
If you say abc is all that exists, and everything you do is limited to abc… and I say abcdefghi is all that exists (bear in mind, I can also be limited in my scope)…
However, the point is you have placed as much faith in your belief that only abc exists as I have placed in my belief that abcdefghi exists etc.
But seriously, who do you suppose will be more limited in their knowledge and experiences etc.
September 3, 2016 at 19:57
How can not believing in something be an ideology? You may as well say not believing in democracy, Father Christmas or not believing in bigfoot are also ideologies.
Have you ever sourced the definition of ideology? Ideology: is the body of doctrine, myth, belief, etc., that guides an individual, social movement, institution, class, or large group. Believing in something that is guided by policy, principles, codes and rules is an ideology.
Doctrine is the key word here. Atheists do not have a doctrine to follow about disbelieving in any god, they are of their own mind of what they believe and as we were all born believing nothing about any gods it is the default state of mind. Atheism simply would not exist if man had not invented gods to believe in.
September 3, 2016 at 20:04
Hey Steve…you keep making the same tired assertion that atheism is the default state of mind.
I challenge that. I challenge you to PROVE the factualness of that repeated assertion.
Remember, proof is more than just your opinion.
Proof. You have made this assertion repeatedly. Prove it.
You know..data, stuff like that. Peer reviewed reports universally agreed on by all scholars.. that sort of thing.
Because, really Steve, the fact that all of the atheist talking heads say the same thing, all of the time, no matter what a post is about is what leads people to the conclusion there is a doctrine and ideology
Anyway, keep it basic for now. Back up your repeated assertion that non belief is the default position humans are born into. Remember Steve…proof. Provide it or prove forever you are a factless blowhard like the rest of your friends.
September 3, 2016 at 21:40
Wally you cannot seriously be suggesting that babies are born believing in a type of religious faith?
That’s the thesis of a 2012 book by psychologist Justin L. Barrett called Born Believers. He says:
“In conversation with Muslims and Hindus I have been told that children come into the world already knowing God. This theme that children have special access to the divine appears in various traditions, but independent of theological claims, do we have reason to believe that we are born believers in God? Understanding the question in the most straightforward way, we do not have strong evidence that children come into the world believing–or not believing–in God. Understanding the question in a different way, however, opens up some interesting possibilities concerning children’s natural receptivity to theistic beliefs.” He also says. “For the sake of discussion, take “born believers” to mean “born with such propensities that under ordinary developmental conditions—biological, social, and cultural—belief will typically arise.”
Barrett is on your side, and even though I do not engage his religious bias he at least draws a line to prevent stupidity about this issue. I do however comfortably claim it is logical and quite obvious that we are born not believing or understanding very much at all about anything in the world except maybe where mum’s breasts are.
Some Islamic Muslims will never say they are converts only reverts because they believe that everyone is born a Muslim. They believe some babies have this truth hidden from them by their parents who tell them they’re Christians or atheists. Logic has gone out of the window for the whole lot of you.
If I am wrong? In your opinion what are we born believing? I think if you believe a baby is naturally converted in the womb by the mother or born as an evangelist somehow I would expect that the onus is on you to provide at least some evidence this is true, from the Bible perhaps?
September 4, 2016 at 08:04
Let’s unpack your comment shall we, Steve?
“Wally you cannot seriously be suggesting that babies are born believing in a type of religious faith?”
I have not actually made any assertion regarding this matter. You have repeatedly. You are misdirecting. Again, you made it..defend it.
” I do however comfortably claim it is logical and quite obvious that we are born not believing or understanding very much at all about anything in the world except maybe where mum’s breasts are. ”
The problem is, you said we are born NOT believing. Which is it? We are born knowing nothing, or we are born not believing? Is it obvious? Based on what, Steve? Your BELIEF that it is true, or your FAITH in what you have been told?
“I think if you believe a baby is naturally converted in the womb by the mother or born as an evangelist”
Gosh, sorry Steve, but I have literally searched every comment you and I have ever exchanged and simply can’t find where I ever made the claim you just ascribed to me. Mistake…or ????? Who knows eh?
Finally. Evidence…from the Bible? Now I am really confused. You discount all evidence from the Bible, yet apparently you have never read it. Again, you have much faith in what people have told you about The Bible.
Try this on for size..evidence from the Bible. You asked for it, so here it is:
“For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse.”
That sums up nicely what God has to say about it.
Don’t waste any more of my time, Steve. You have just proven by your abject refusal to engage a specific question that you are not here to actually have a two way conversation, but to use this blog as an atheist evangelist pulpit. Good thing you are really lousy at it LOL.
September 4, 2016 at 17:07
OK Wally, as you did not agree that babies are born the default atheist position what do you believe?
Born knowing nothing or born not believing or understanding very much at all about anything is pretty much the same thing I would say.
Conversion in the womb or born as an evangelist is illogical to me but have to eliminate these ideas, and you have done that, thank you.
I mean your evidence from the Bible, do not get confused, I as you know I do not believe it is reliable evidence.
Does this passage Romans 1:20 suggest to you that God knows who is going to convert anyway so I guess he is not actually saying anybody is born a religious believer?
What “abject refusal to engage a specific question” are you on about? You always appear to want to belittle me and my comments rather than have a conversation. By the way I thought my conversation was with theancients but you always seem to take over. Why is that, do you feel they are not qualified or you just want to get into me?
September 4, 2016 at 18:31
“What “abject refusal to engage a specific question” are you on about?”
Um..that would be the one where I keep asking you to substantiate you have made over and over. But, you keep turning it around to what I believe. Funny..if I were to tell you what I believe, the first thing you would do is ask me to substantiate it. Ha ha ha
“Does this passage Romans 1:20 suggest to you that God knows who is going to convert anyway so I guess he is not actually saying anybody is born a religious believer?”
Um, no it doesn’t say that. Your exegesis sucks.
“By the way I thought my conversation was with theancients but you always seem to take over.”
Well..gee I dunno. Maybe I figured any conversation on my blog is okay for me to participate in? The Ancients has not been cut out here. In fact, consider yourself lucky it’s only me talking, as my friend would really make you look like a ding dong.
But, back to the challenge. You made an assertion, and have made it repeatedly. Back….it……up.
September 5, 2016 at 11:29
Friend, if you do not believe in something, isn’t it because you’re believing its opposite!
Okay, lets say I do not believe you.
If I do not believe in Father Christmas, bigfoot etc. it’s because I do not believe they actually exist!… as opposed to them existing!
If I do not believe in other gods, it’s because though I believe they exist, I do not believe they are the One True God.
From your definition above:
Ideology is belief that guides an individual social movement, etc.
Isn’t this one of the tenets of atheism. – The belief that there is no God, hence the desire to remove Him from all aspects of society (i.e. government, education, workplace, etc.)
Point out what is wrong with this statement I came across…since you’re an atheist and I’m not.
“The philosophy of Atheism represents a concept of life without any metaphysical Beyond or Divine Regulator. It is the concept of an actual, real world with its liberating, expanding and beautifying possibilities, as against an unreal world, which, with its spirits, oracles, and mean contentment has kept humanity in helpless degradation.”
You may claim not to have a doctrine, but you certainly have a belief. [Notice there is a comma used after the word doctrine in your original definition].
In any event, I just want to say to you that a God or god is someone or something that you have placed your trust in as your benefactor, healer, provider, etc. [Yes, some have only 1 God and others have many gods… the atheist is no different. He has chosen to place his trust in his self, in science, and according to him – in “no god”… “no god” is also a god].
Contrary to your last line which really makes no sense: Atheism simply would not exist if there were no God! It’s that plain and simple.
September 6, 2016 at 06:21
Atheists think of all gods as nothing more than inventions of man and do not exist, exactly as Father Christmas or bigfoot does not exist for you.
The fact is that all gods and religions have had such a tight grip on our politics, economics and the social fabric of everybody’s lives and many people including some atheists have basically had enough and want fair representation for all. Atheists do not all want the same things to happen so to call them tenets of atheism is stretching too far.
Nothing wrong with the atheist statement apart from the word “concept.” This is because the real world cannot be a concept, the unreal world would be more deserving of that expression.
You may argue that atheists have a belief that no gods exist and that is true, however it is a far cry from the doctrine, belief and faith committed to a religion and cannot be compared. An atheist may have a doctrine based belief such as alien visitations, however that is not a commitment to, or a doctrine of atheism.
I am an atheist and I choose to live as I do. Of course I must trust myself to do the right things, Trust in science is basically true, however one thing I have learnt over many years is never trust or believe everything that you are told or read without verifying the details first.
You say “He has chosen to place his trust in his self, in science, and according to him – in “no god”… “no god” is also a god].”
No god is simply no god, how can that be construed as a god? Maybe a free state of mind would be more appropriate?
If man had not invented gods and religions starting from the beginning of man through to the major religions of today, we would not have atheism because there would be no gods for anyone to believe in, right?
September 6, 2016 at 11:01
“Atheists think of all gods as inventions of man and do not exist…”
Which brings us full circle. You have every right to believe/think what you want. However, like everyone else, your belief is based on faith.
You have faith in your logic & limited knowledge and in the logic & limited knowledge of those who have wrongly concluded or told you that there are no gods.
Do you believe the Kingdom of heaven is about religion, or is it about governance?
September 2, 2016 at 02:25
September 6, 2016 at 06:32
My answer Wally is the world’s religions have been unable to substantiate their beliefs to the most intellectual scientific people on our planet, therefore Wally I do not expect anything to be substantiated when it comes to anything involving religious belief.
I claim babies are born atheist and not religious and I have already presented the devout Christian psychologist Justin L. Barrett comments that have some reluctant support for this claim.
AC Grayling’s is a Professor of Philosophy at the University of London disagrees that children are hardwired to believe in a supreme being. He says: “Not only does this ignore the evidence from developmental psychology about the second stage of cognitive maturation, but is in itself a very big – and obviously hopeful – jump indeed. Moreover, it ignores the fact that large tracts of humankind (the Chinese for a numerous example) have no beliefs in a supreme being, innate or learned, and that most primitive religion is animistic.”
Regardless of understanding the technical details it is a most logical and sensible deduction especially without any contrary evidence to refute it. But of course most religious doctrine will not come to these logical conclusions.
September 6, 2016 at 06:55
OK..lemme make sure I have this..and this from the science guy here(that being you) I’m gonna start calling you Bill, as in Bill Nye the Science Guy, ok?
Anyway Bill, you found ONE guy, and he is a professor or Philosophy, to support your contention. Ba ha hahahahahahaha!!!!
“Regardless of understanding the technical details”
Welllllllllllllll..I suppose not understanding the technical details is ok when you debate, after all opinions work just fine!
“it is a most logical and sensible deduction especially without any contrary evidence to refute it” Um..look in the debate handbook or something, Bill. My failure to prove MY position doesn’t make your position true. Pretty sure I nailed that one.
And besides, I HAVE proven my position. Actually God did the work for me and was kind enough to put in into words for us all. Go back a couple of comments.
I only say this because you asked me to provide evidence from the Bible that we are born understanding the existence of God. Would you like me to quote your request? I shall “I would expect that the onus is on you to provide at least some evidence this is true, from the Bible perhaps?”
So again, for your perusal, exactly what you asked for.
“For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse.”
There you have it Steve
You KNOW. That’s why you are here. You KNOW. IF God wasn’t real, you would not waste so much of your life flailing away at Him.
He is real
You know it
September 6, 2016 at 07:33
Your last comments Wally “You KNOW. That’s why you are here. You KNOW. IF God wasn’t real, you would not waste so much of your life flailing away at Him.
You know it”
That sums up the tragedy of human life, I am standing outside your circle looking in at your delusion. I know you are desperate for your belief and you may call me the devil, however that is all part of the story that is so real to you.
September 6, 2016 at 07:38
You don’t have to stand outside the circle looking in. That is actually the tragedy of human life, that so many choose to stand outside looking in, such as you.
It’s tragedy because you, in fact, do know I am right Steve and yet you stand outside looking in.
September 6, 2016 at 07:10
“Moreover, it ignores the fact that large tracts of humankind (the Chinese for a numerous example) have no beliefs in a supreme being, innate or learned,”
I meant to laugh at that statement too, Bill.
You understand, of course, that that blanket statement made by your professor is quite false? That means untrue. He basically asserted that the Chinese populace as a whole is atheist. In fact, the Chinese Christian church is one of the fastest growing in the world.
I am pretty sure what you meant to say is that China is the biggest atheist government in the world, which has failed miserably in their efforts to wipe faith out via government mandate.
Any way, thought you might like to know that the only flimsy support you had for your repeated assertion was in fact itself supported by an outright false hood.
Darn it for you.
September 7, 2016 at 03:58
theancients.I base my belief that no gods exist on my own logic and the knowledge available to me, call it faith but it is not a religious type of faith. I have the same reasons to not believe in gods through the scientific and historic evidence just like 97% of the creditable scientists on our planet who you conclude are wrong.
The kingdom of heaven is invented by man and does not exist. We all go to the same place when we die and we will all know nothing about it.
September 7, 2016 at 06:18
Steve I have just had a blinding flash of irony. Ponder on this and I shall let you be
If this life is all you have, you should really go enjoy what you have left instead of wasting so much time arguing with Christians. Time is limited, you know.
Have a good day, Steve.
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