Part 6. We have been studying in some detail this very critical central doctrine of the Christian faith, and are working our way towards a conclusion. Before we dive into the meat of the post, I want to establish the parameters of how this is being approached to cut off, before they begin, certain arguments which might be made.
The objective here is to teach what the Bible teaches about the deity of Jesus Christ. We are going to look at things Jesus said, and we will look at things He did. We will look at what others had to say, including Jesus’ enemies and other writers of the Bible. By the time we finish this series we will clearly understand that those who teach counter to to the true Biblical position on the Deity of Jesus, and claim to base their position on the Bible, are simply wrong and have no case to make. That may sound harsh, but it is true. Stay with this study for the duration, and that point will be made quite clear.
The objective is NOT to debate the accuracy of The Bible. If that interests you, move on along, because that is not the discussion here. We are here to teach what the Bible teaches, with a big dose of presupposition that is is correct and accurate.
Let’s dive right in, shall we?
So, did Jesus claim to be God? Well, as we have discussed, He never said the words “I am God.” He did, however make some claims that clearly seem to indicate He was making just that claim. Let’s look at some of those.
In John 10:30, Jesus claimed He and His father were one
In John 14:1, he said those who believe in God also believe in Him
In John 14:9, Jesus told Phillip that anyone who had seen Him had seen God.
John Chapter 14 is, in fact full of references to Jesus and the Father being of one essence.
In John 14:7, Jesus informed Phillip that if he had known Jesus, he would have known “My Father as well.”
John 14:10: “Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me?”
John 14:11: “Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me“
Jesus claimed equality with God, that He was the Son of God. It is simply a rule of logic that if two things are equal, they are basically the same. For instance 2=2 clearly shows us that 2 and 2 are the same thing in every sense of the word. It gets more complicated when you compare beings or ideas, but the concept is the same. If Student A claims to be equal with Student B, then in some verifiable way they are equal. Of course, they may not be equal in every way: one may be tall and one short, one may be large one may be small. However, in some way they are equal. In normal usage, to claim equality with another person is claiming positional equality;in other words they share an equal position in the scheme of things and in life. When our country’s founders wrote in the Declaration of Independence that “All men are created equal”, they were not saying we are all alike, they were saying that we are equal in our position and standing before other people as well as before God.
So, if Jesus claimed equality with God (and He did), then He was stating He shared a position of equality with God. Who can be positionally equal with an infinite God other than God Himself? Therefore to claim equality with God is to claim to be God.
Jesus claimed to be the Son of God. This claim is very important when studied in the context of Jewish culture of Jesus’ day. Ancestry and lineage was of primary importance in the culture of the day. A son, while he might have to grow and mature, was in many ways the absolute equal to his father. Ultimately, every first born son of a Jewish male would assume his father’s place in the structure, authority, and culture of his time. So, to be a man’s son was to imply, basically, equality with that man. So, for Jesus to claim to be God’s son was to claim equality and one-ship with God.
Here are a couple of useful outside remarks concerning this issue”
Norman Giesler quoting Peter Kreeft in his book, “Why I Am a Christian:
Jesus also claimed to be the, “Son of God.” This title does not mean Jesus is God’s biological Son. Neither does the term “Son” imply inferiority anymore than a human son is inferior in essence to his father. A son shares his father’s DNA, and although he is different, they are both men. Scholars say that the term “Son of God” in the original languages refers to likeness, or “of the same order.” Jesus meant by it that he has divine essence, or in 21st century terms, the “DNA of God
From Jesus OnLine Misistries:
What did Jesus mean when he called himself the ‘Son of God’? The son of a man is a man. (Both ‘son’ and ‘man,’ in the traditional language, mean males and females equally.) The son of an ape is an ape. The son of a dog is a dog. The son of a shark is a shark. And so the Son of God is God. ‘Son of God’ is a divine title.
So, we can see that even if Jesus, never uttered the words, “I am God,” that He did make claims to being of one essence with God, or claims of equality with God. We could stop here and have sufficient evidence that Jesus laid claims to divinity, but we won’t. Next week we will look at some things Jesus DID which basically amount to claims of a divine nature.
Until then, peace and blessings!
April 18, 2016 at 07:30
Great topic that is often misunderstood by most I love to reference Isaiah 9:6 also that clearly defines who Jesus is God bless!
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April 18, 2016 at 07:45
Ah…that’s an excellent one! Also confirms some important prophetic things as well. Thanks and blessings back friend.
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April 18, 2016 at 07:50
We had the John 10:30 passage in church yesterday. This so reinforces the fact that Jesus and God are united. The Word is clear.
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April 18, 2016 at 08:45
The Word is clear. Yep. Still people fuzzy it up on this. Go figure.
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April 18, 2016 at 08:42
John’s Gospel is chuck full of “I AM” statements. In almost all of them, He is stating that He is God as the Father descried Himself to Moses as “I AM WHO I AM” in Exodus 3:14. It was those declarations that caused the Pharisees to accuse Him of blasphemy.
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April 18, 2016 at 08:46
Yep indeed. In fact, the I Am statements are on the agenda over the next bit. So many things, when taken as a whole and in context support this Doctrine, don’t they Don?
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April 18, 2016 at 09:33
Wally, rushing out to a breakfast meeting and onto church. Will reread & respond later.
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April 18, 2016 at 09:34
Oops. That comment didn’t apply. What I meant to say was, AMEN
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April 18, 2016 at 09:40
Ha..have fun at your meeting Don. And you are still welcome to return and reply more, as your thoughts are valuable and welcome my friend.
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April 18, 2016 at 10:17
That was a message I tried to send yesterday re: Eagle Christians. It didn’t post and was still in my comment box. That’s what I get for using me app instead of my laptop.
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April 18, 2016 at 10:20
Too funny.
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April 18, 2016 at 09:26
I am the way, the truth, and the life. No man cometh unto the Father save it be by me.
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April 18, 2016 at 09:41
That says a lot doesn’t it Dan? Thanks for reading and your comment and welcome to my blog!
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April 18, 2016 at 09:52
I’ve been debating a Jehovah witness elder on this topic I just want to share our findings
1 Jws Bible they changed John 1:1 to say Jesus is a God I then questioned how can this be if there is only one God. He didn’t have an answer
2. I showed him Matthew 28:19 where all the disciples worshipped Jesus before he ascended to Heaven. I said if Jesus is not God then why did the disciples worship him? Why wouldn’t Jesus rebuke them if he wasn’t God? Again he had no answer
3. Isaiah 9:6 clearly defines Jesus as The Almighty God and The Everlasting Father. How could this be if Jesus is not God? Again no answer
This JW is a dear friend of mine and has been studying for 25 years with them.
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April 18, 2016 at 09:59
I haven’t read your entire series (only this post), but will, and while I would enjoy demonstrating that nothing in the New Testament was written by anyone who had ever met Yeshua, and all that was written there was based on rumors and multiple-hand stories passed from mouth to ear that likely grew with each telling, you have established rules for this debate:
I will abide by those rules simply because, unlike the cowardly lion, Colorstorm, you have chosen to actually discuss the subject with at least some semblance of evidence, rather than just flinging scripture and a few flowery phrases, then sitting back and waiting for pats on the head to roll in for saying what he knows everyone wants to hear. I can respect that and comply.
The NT book known as ‘Hebrews‘ is a strange book. The full title is “The Epistle of Paul the Apostle To the Hebrews,” but doubt on Pauline authorship was reported early on by Eusebius, and to further confuse the issue, the last sentence in the KJV version is a footnote which reads, “Written to the Hebrews from Italy by Timothy,” thereby initiating an enigma from the onset. The truth is that like most of the books of the New Testament, no one knows who wrote it and it was actually excluded from the canon, but was added at literally the last minute so to speak, in the 4th century, just as the Church closed canonicity for all time.
Hebrews is an enigma in another sense as well. There are passages that leave the impression that Yeshua is Yahweh incarnate, other passages that decree that he is definitely the son of Yahweh, others that Yeshua is a high priest whose job it is to forever act as intercessor between Yahweh and Humankind, while there are yet others that make it clear that Yeshua behaved quite humanly and was fully subordinate to Yahweh:
Clearly a god, being immortal, would have no reason to “fear” death.
Essentially, ‘Hebrews‘ leans in the direction of the conclusion that Yeshua was NOT Yahweh, but rather his subordinate – higher than the (fictional) angels and Humankind, but subordinate to Yahweh himself.
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April 18, 2016 at 10:19
Perhaps some study on the concept of the Hypostatic union would be in order.
Point two.You destroyed your credibility when you took an unneeded opportunity to insult my friend.
Point three. Why do you care about this anyway?
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April 18, 2016 at 10:34
RE Hypostatic union: This was a concept that arose as a result of a debate in the 4th and 5th centuries CE, and is not firmly supported anywhere by scripture, but was a construct of the winner of the debate, Cyril of Alexandria:
My credibility is not an issue here, as everything I’m saying comes directly from the Bible, as per our own terms of debate.
“Point three. Why do you care about this anyway?
Because you invited me here – have you forgotten already?
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April 18, 2016 at 10:40
Yes..I did
And yes, your credibility is an issue because you open with insults about a person not present. Agenda
The question why do you care is appropriate. Again agenda.
Just read and pay attention as the series continues.
But, it appears your efforts are no more than efforts to disrupt the teachings here when you really have no vested interest as to what Christians teach other Christians
You state things as fact, when they are really nothing more than the opinions of scholars whose opinion you like
But, again, you negated the entire conversation when you insulted a person not even here.
Come correct, or don’t come at all
Peace
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April 18, 2016 at 17:49
I made the mistake, in my comment, of praising you for your surprising willingness to carry on an open and honest discussion, but I can see now that my praise was a bit premature – your response assures me that you do not want a debate, or even a discussion, only a mutual admiration society, and I can’t be a part of that. I thought you were better than Colorstorm, but in actuality, you’re only Colorstorm Light —
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April 18, 2016 at 14:44
Hi arch,
Clearly, this is not a true statement by you: “The truth is that like most of the books of the New Testament, no one knows who wrote it…”
It’s okay to say you are not convinced by the authorship of the books of the NT… however, since neither you, nor I, nor any of the other people whose conclusions you’re using to cast doubt on authorship weren’t there, you’re really just offering your opinion here, nothing else.
arch:”Clearly a [G]od, being immortal, would have no reason to “fear” death”
You’re right, Jesus would have no reason to fear physical death {this is what you’re referring to] and He clearly did not.
The scripture is not speaking of “physical death” but spiritual death. Death is separation from God!
This is where you choose my friend – eternal separation from God (death) or a loving relationship knowing the author of life (eternal life).
My friend, Jesus was forsaken and suffered separation from His Father for us… so that we do not have to be forsaken nor separated from Him.
Which human being will be so foolish to ignore/cast aside such a tremendously great sacrifice.
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April 18, 2016 at 10:12
unashamedojesus: At no point does Isaiah 9:6 mention that the individual he references is Yeshua – that is an assumption you are making – a conclusion that is not based on any evidence found in Isaiah.
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April 18, 2016 at 10:20
Arch.
You don’t have a dog in this fight.
Peace out
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April 18, 2016 at 10:42
I thought the object here was to use the Bible as evidence, which is exactly what I’m doing.
The answer to your question, “Why are you here?“
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April 18, 2016 at 10:54
You don’t get it do you? Your agenda is clearly revealed by so many things. Insults, backdoor references to accuracy of the Bible…same, same.
As I said, come correct or don’t come.
You were shut down when you seized the chance to insult a friend
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April 18, 2016 at 11:01
As you wish, but your original invitation didn’t come with conditions. Your ‘friend‘ is only a friend to those who feed his hungry ego.
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April 18, 2016 at 11:07
And the invitation stands. Tell you what. This series is not done yet
Just behave and don’t be so obvious with your agenda.
Fair?
Heck, for some reason I actually find you quite interesting, Arch.
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April 18, 2016 at 11:27
Sorry, in this short interchange, you’ve proven that you can’t tolerate facts that don’t agree with your preconceived notions. Christians will quote Eusebius when they want to attempt to substantiate that Yeshua really lived, but when he indicates his belief that Paul didn’t write Hebrews, suddenly there’s an ‘agenda‘.
I don’t accept conditional invitations – good luck with your yes-men.
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April 18, 2016 at 11:52
Hey W,
I’m laughing here, per ‘you are welcome here anytime,’ with the ensuing ‘only with conditions gripe.’
Yea, you too are welcome in my home, but you are not welcome to take my wife, steal my refrigerator, and ransack my wallet, then ask for a sandwich to go, as you snickeringly say ‘Who me? What? What’s the problem here?’
There is this thing called decorum, and you are correct to nip any obvious derailment of your post instantly. Your post is about the Lord Christ and his glories, not a swamp fest where every foul bird and unclean innuendo is welcome to jump in. How my name came up in this context is just plain bizarre.
But tkx as usual for the right hand of the fellows on the ship. 😉
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April 18, 2016 at 12:11
I know, right? Sigh. Hope your day is well friend
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April 18, 2016 at 16:29
Equal is absolutely correct. But equal does not mean the same.
Two Porches may have the same attributes and on the face of it one might be unable to separate them, but they are still two distinct entities and not one car.
It is the same with Yahweh and Jesus. ( whether I believe or not is immaterial to the discussion)
It’s at this point where the lines smudge somewhat and doctrine is enforced and over-rules objection. For, as you have previously pointed out, if one does not accept doctrine, and of course, bu this we mean the ”right” doctrine, then one cannot be a true Christian.
Yes this specific point was argued and fought over for centuries and different doctrine were formulated to try to resolve this issue along the way. If it was so cut and dried from the onset what was all the fighting about?
There are any number of analogies one could use to demonstrate this point clearly enough, as with the Porsche example, but to challenge this on your blog would likely be futile as you have already laid out the parameters.
One has to wonder why have a ”discussion” on this topic in an open forum if you are not prepared to shoulder the burden of answering questions in an honest fashion?
Ark.
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April 18, 2016 at 16:35
ARk
Here is the issue. You aren’t here to have a discussion. You are here to interrupt and distract. You have no vested interest in this debate at all.
When you say you are here for honest discussion..history says you lie.
You are here to promote the atheist agenda and to interfere with Christian teachings.
I like Maria, pray for you. Buy waste my time arguing a point that you don’t actually care about? Nah, pass
Peace and have a good day
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April 18, 2016 at 16:45
It is only a waste of time, Wally if you are not prepared to defend your faith with honesty and integrity.
You mention in one reply:
”The Word is clear. Yep. Still people fuzzy it up on this. Go figure.”
Yet you post is full of fuzzy right down to the last paragraph where you admit that Jesus never actually said he was God at all – anywhere in the gospels.
All you have is interpretation – doctrine in other words.
Rather admit that this is what Christians prefer to believe – doctrine that was hammered out over centuries – and not state that Jesus claimed he was Yahweh. He may have said he was equal to his father, depending on your interpretation of this part of the text, but plainly he did not claim he was his Father, which even on the face of it sounds quite silly, don’t you think so?
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April 18, 2016 at 16:49
No..you are a waste of my time.
Cool thing though, Ark. God doesn’t consider you a waste of time, unlike this flawed human. So while I may or may not give you the time of day, God is still reaching and calling. Good thing HE is God and not me. Perhaps you should get that too.
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April 18, 2016 at 16:52
So what you are saying in point of fact is that you are unable to offer a reasonable reply to my comment regarding doctrine and it’s much easier to insult me and abrogate all responsibility to Yahweh for your lack of understanding?
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April 18, 2016 at 16:55
Um…no..gosh…not sure where I said that.
What is fact, is that no answer will satisfy you. Fact. See, the problem is, you define reasonable. No word based on The Word will every be reasonable.
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April 18, 2016 at 16:59
Again, what is the ”Word”, Wally?
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April 18, 2016 at 17:02
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.
And the darkness WILL not over come it. But, hey keep trying.
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April 18, 2016 at 17:15
John, right?
Would you agree that in the Gospel of John, Jesus is portrayed as God’s only Son?
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April 19, 2016 at 04:52
Looking forward to the series being continued after setting up the presuppositions and parameters!
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April 19, 2016 at 06:12
Didn’t appear to help much LOL. Friends have still come to visit. By they way the whole concept of taking a clearly presuppositional sort of approach? I really learned that reading your blog.
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April 19, 2016 at 06:16
Praise the Lord! my sleep pattern is still off…I got to go back to sleep after waking up suddenly two hours ago…
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April 19, 2016 at 06:27
Bless your heart LOL. Go….sleep
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April 19, 2016 at 16:14
Have you deleted comments or am I reading the wrong post? Where are Maria’s comments?
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April 19, 2016 at 16:20
Wrong post I guess
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April 19, 2016 at 16:21
Which post was the discussion with Maria?
I can’t work my way round this blog theme, I much preferred the other one..
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April 19, 2016 at 16:29
part 4 I think. Yeah, each has it’s pros and cons. The mobile users really like this one.
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April 19, 2016 at 16:34
It’s okay, I found it.
As for your theme, you gotta go with whatever one you like.
I’m only an occasional visitor these days, anyway.
I just find having all the info at the bottom rather than a side bar more cumbersome. That’s me.
Full width pages are often great for blogs that are completely photo orientated.
We’re all different.
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April 20, 2016 at 06:05
Wally here is The Lord Jesus Christ admitting his equality and Sonship with God The Father
John 9/35 Jesus heard that they had cast him out; and when He had found him, He said to him, “Do you believe in the Son of God?”
36 He answered and said, “Who is He, Lord, that I may believe in Him?”
37 And Jesus said to him, “You have both seen Him and it is He who is talking with you.”
38 Then he said, “Lord, I believe!” And he worshiped Him.
Kinda obvious right?
Thanks for sharing the Word with us. Be Blessed, knowing that your labour is not in vain in The Lord.
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April 20, 2016 at 06:23
Hi Ken that is a great point you have shown there thank you. It is notable there that Jesus also accepted worship there. Thanks notch for your thoughts here and many blessings to you
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May 6, 2016 at 20:40
Reblogged this on Redbird's Roost.
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October 15, 2016 at 21:35
Good stuff. Jesus made it very obvious He was God, I wrote a blog on it myself.
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October 15, 2016 at 21:36
Thanks much. And yes, He certainly thought He was God. Do you have a link? I’d love to read if you do.
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October 15, 2016 at 21:38
Do I have a link? Definitely! https://faithfulphilosophy.wordpress.com/2016/10/09/jesus-claimed-to-be-god/
I’d appreciate it if you shared it as well. I hope you have a great read.
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October 15, 2016 at 21:42
I already found it LOL. Very in depth and complete.
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October 15, 2016 at 21:46
Thanks a lot. Let me know when you finish reading it on your thoughts.
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October 15, 2016 at 21:47
I will. About to hit the sack here, so will read tomorrow most likely.
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October 15, 2016 at 23:27
Sounds fair. I should probably do that myself soon.
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October 19, 2016 at 19:50
Ha…I see you are visiting over at Mike’s(KIA) place…all the best with that endeavor my friend.
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