christian liberty, christian quotes, free in jesus, romans 14, romans 14:21
February 13, 2016 at 13:02
Ok, I’ll bite…what’s with the quotes around Christian liberty? 😀
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February 13, 2016 at 13:17
Ha! Finally a nibble! These quotes are rarely random…just FYI. Usually they are something I have learned or need to learn better myself. Sometimes they have to do with somebody or somebodies I have interacted with.
In this case some if these have been my thoughts on some bodies slipping into some issues with legalism.
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February 13, 2016 at 13:47
A mature believer doesn’t use the truth to control others. I’ve seen legalism bent so many ways but the bottom line is a sick need for control.
February 13, 2016 at 14:35
Very true Pam, and I even see it on here. Actually, here is where I see it, as it’s not really an issue where I go to church.
February 13, 2016 at 14:50
I’m glad your church doesn’t have that problem. It’s a church-killer.
February 13, 2016 at 14:54
Well..there are a few who would like to lean that way, but overall they are harmless. Like the lady who commented to my step daughter when she got an extra piercing in her ear(which I said ok to by the way), “oh, I guess you are all in the world now.” We just shrugged it off, as that child is a truly God loving girl.
February 13, 2016 at 16:55
That kind of attitude can be really hard on teenagers. I’m glad she has your support.
February 13, 2016 at 17:00
There’s a funny story there. I am….strict…ok? And tend to not be into too much silliness. That girl my step daughter has been very good for me as she has taught me to be silly at times. Anyway her mom made her ask me about the earring thing just knowing I would have a cow. They were shocked when I didn’t object. It was really funny
February 13, 2016 at 16:57
Sometimes, but I would also add that it can be from a true lack of understanding of the love of God. That God loves me utterly that He can tolerate my faltering steps as He gently peels away my legalistic tendencies (borne of fear, which is from “unperfected love”), there begins a deep, deep healing. And it comes from knowing the love of God. Legalism is sick, but sometimes it’s Satan’s control over the person, not the person’s need to be in control. Does that make sense?
February 13, 2016 at 17:02
(This was in response to Pam’s comment on legalism being about control…)
February 13, 2016 at 17:05
Yes. It has the same detrimental effect. Fear, anxiety are the need for control. Legalism can spread like cancer. It feeds into our human need for acceptance as well as a need for control. We tend to see unity as uniformity but God’s unity is diverse.
February 13, 2016 at 17:06
AH! Terrific comment and great discussion here!
February 13, 2016 at 17:22
February 13, 2016 at 14:13
Ok – marked to re-read, each year, as I grow and learn more – for now? Requesting further information on YOUR take of passage! cuz, for me? It means:
Not my job to be hateful to vegetarians/vegans or those who shop for meat once a day/week – only my job to explain why I have chosen to purchase from conscientious, humane ranchers, and eat meat…still
Not my job to question communion, drinking, imbibing or alcohol consumption – only to be aware many prefer grape juice, will think me a wino, say as much and they are welcome to their opinion – God knows my heart –
Not my job to point out that I get to go to Church and connect with the Divine multiple times a day in hateful response to those concerned cuz I’m a hermit – only my job to say, I connect and commune with the divine while gazing at the stars, the sunrise, the breeze, the beauty of the weed I cannot allow to enter my garden area (sorry for your removal – I laud your survival techniques and beauty…) and to thank folks who provide me ‘community’ of support when I forget to connect, appreciate, be thankful/grateful, find courage to face Life challenges – through quotes, shares, stories, phone chats, theology debates, and listening –
Let me know what I’m missing/mis-interpreting from your intent of posting/sharing – 🙂 Cuz you and I have ‘connected’ before and I now trust, I can be honest and ask such things, without you being offended by my quest for better understanding – – 🙂
February 13, 2016 at 14:46
Hmm. Interesting question. I think you nailed the gist of it pretty well, in that we all ought to loosen up a bit. Legalism is just a step away.
Specifically in that passage it is more a reference to seasoned believers who are somewhat looser in their Christian liberty causing newer believers to trip up and violate their own consciences. I.e. as a new believer I might think there is suddenly stuff I ought not to be doing, that might not necessarily be wrong. A more mature believer might know it’s ok, but should not encourage the newer one to violate their own conscience.
Example. I don’t drink. Ever. Used to a lot. Used to lots of stuff a lot. I don’t think it’s necessarily wrong to either. But, it’s very wrong for me. No more seasoned believer should try to convince me it’s ok. I would even say it would be nice if they didn’t even do it around me, as I could become tripped up. That is probably a good example.
The whole church thing? Well, my feelings on that matter are quite strong, and my prayer would be that you would find a body of believers you were comfortable enough with to serve with.
February 13, 2016 at 14:57
OK! guess I didn’t miss as much as I thought I was, but tucked away response to ponder upon – cuz, ya know, “Mary ponder all these things in her heart….” 🙂 LOL – I had a training with a client who is also a minsiter’s wife, a couple weeks ago, who I was telling about you – She said, “That is exactly what we discussed last week at Bible Study – You don’t share/practice your faith in some protected space – you Live it! And you go to where those who are in need, need ya…” – 🙂 Client and I have very different ideas on how hard to push missionizing objectives – BUT – our conversation made me truly realize how much we also had in common – 🙂 The first 30 seconds of this clip from JFK speech at graduation, repeated in the movie, “the sum of all fears” – I think it a good one to remember – 🙂 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SRH6_–dCqA
February 13, 2016 at 15:38
Ha….well I am a push hard type of fellow myself. You have probably figured that out though
February 13, 2016 at 15:03
BTW – I still am holding tight to the cliche: “You can’t legislate morality” – and my addition to quote? “…our systems will improve once a majority of humans under/participating in/taking part in the system, choose to do their own self-improvement work – ” 🙂 Which, I think, is very well supported through religious systems and dogma, from a variety of sources – old and new – and stymied by other takes/actions etc. – – 😀 but it ain’t easy to keep up with it all! I confess! 🙂
February 13, 2016 at 15:48
Fascinating, Wally, simply because a similar issue has been on my mind, too. There’s a real fine line between judgement and encouragement and many people have no idea where the line is, so legalism can begin to creep in there, where grace should be. It is as if we believe God cannot speak to anyone else without our help, without us pointing out to Him how the other person is doing it all wrong. We put those stumbling blocks in front of others in a myriad of ways, none of them good. As to “mature believers,” well, a need to control others isn’t actually “mature.” Ah heck, let’s speak plainly here, just give those people some milk and bottle feed them. 😉
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February 13, 2016 at 16:07
It is fascinating IB, because I can’t seem to get it off of my mind either, which leads me to believe I must be falling sort in the area.
Yes, age maturity and spiritual maturity do not necessarily match at all. I have, a couple of times, had somebody a with many more years of faith tell me something was just the way it was. Eh…I am know for making the old guys, including the preacher, explain just where the Scriptural justification for something is. That can be pretty funny at times. I am pretty much the loose canon on deck around our church. But many times tradition and preference make the older believers want to impose that on the younger.
But, at the same time, we can’t be dismissive or their traditions and preferences either, because that would be the same sin in reverse.
Challenge them..yet respect their wisdom and knowledge. Seems to work pretty good.
February 13, 2016 at 16:27
Well, one thing I can tell you about Jesus Christ, He welcomes all our questions and He answers them too. I know because I sometimes think I am like that little kid that just cannot stop asking why, why 😉
God is faithful and patient however, and scripture is tried and true, it can withstand our questions, our debates.
An apologetic is actually an advocate for the faith, a lawyer so to speak, and as such we are designed to challenge, to “comfort the afflicted and to afflict the comfortable” as the saying goes.
February 13, 2016 at 16:34
Ha yep, we were separated at birth
February 13, 2016 at 19:17
And… the rest of the Chapter’s Discussion is just as important. A brother/sister should not use hiis/her own scruples against meat or wine to rebuke or condemn another without that conviction. “For one worships one day…” another “eats one thing….” to the glory of the Lord. So let each one stand or fall before his own Lord, for the Lord is able to make him stand. 🙂 (Short form: “Keep to your lane… Don’t try to be another’s conscience. God’s got that covered! :)”
February 13, 2016 at 19:22
Indeed so, indeed so. Thanks LM
February 13, 2016 at 19:26
Oops. I wasn’t done. I was thinking about holidays. Holidays is kind of what made me have that thought. Christmas, Easter, so on and so forth. So many grand battles get fought over holidays. Are they Christian? Are they Pagan? Ugh, they wear me out.
February 13, 2016 at 19:33
Yeah. I find if I just love, laugh, embrace, comfort, listen, counsel when asked… that all keeps me busy enough. Scorekeeping others’ games… haven’t got the time. 🙂
February 13, 2016 at 19:37
Ha, true that. I can barely manage myself. Listen..that’s a big one. Sometimes that’s all a person needs. Build friendships…then the difficult conversations are easier.
February 13, 2016 at 19:36
Nature of holidays? 🙂
Hey, any day that honors God… in name or sincere heart… is a “good” day. “No one can say ‘Jesus is Lord’ but by the Spirit.” AND… since this IS Kingdom, and we’re in the celebration of the Bridegroom as His Bride… Hey, I don’t care what reason we have to find for the party… Our Lord said we are now in “Jubilee”, the time of celebration. Let others fight about foolishness, I’m gonna celebrate Christ and love in His Name. Anything else gets too complicated for me. Grace — LM
February 13, 2016 at 19:38
February 14, 2016 at 04:03
Amen – that is truly loving your brother /sister!😺 Happy Valentines day to you and your family!💚
February 14, 2016 at 05:22
You too, are you doing anything special?
February 14, 2016 at 16:27
Well the human is making a Pawsome pork roast with roasted red potatoes, Salad and sweet corn fur dinner at home (with a glass of red wine)- and they’re staying home with me and watching movies and playing with me and my new toy – they know I’m going to cry and pace back and forth from the windows watching fur them if they leave me alone. I’m still morning “the Judge” so they’re trying to stay close to me. They’re my Valentines!💘💖
February 14, 2016 at 16:43
Well, that is a good one. I am all about some pot roast! Red potatoes..yum. Corn, even better. Have fun! Been working today myself, but about to head out for evening service and hope work doesn’t interrupt it.
February 14, 2016 at 16:52
Oh it is going to be delicious (and they have Valentines treats and food fur me too)!😺 Will purray that you don’t get interrupted at church by work!!*trills *
February 14, 2016 at 19:42
Sigh, It did. Had to sit in the nursery and listen to preaching.
February 14, 2016 at 20:25
Mol! In the den of CREATURES??🙀
February 14, 2016 at 20:29
Well, there was only one…and boy she WAS a creature!
February 14, 2016 at 20:31
February 14, 2016 at 20:26
The human has done that a few times…..and comes back nervous as a Kat in a doghouse!!!!😹
February 14, 2016 at 20:30
Ha, cat in a doghouse.
Percy is sitting in his grand mama’s lap LOL. Of all the things, the one person who always has hated cats, and it’s that lap he wants to sit in. Crazy
Mol!😸 That’s because he’s changing her mind!!
February 14, 2016 at 20:34
Indeed he is. She just talks to him like he’s a person LOL. I would have never thought in a million years.
February 14, 2016 at 21:53
We kats are good at that. The humans talk to me as though I’m the boss- (because I am)!! 😹 MWAHAHAHA!
February 15, 2016 at 04:44
February 15, 2016 at 14:43
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