October 6, 2015 at 12:37
Reblogged this on awomansaved.
October 6, 2015 at 13:41
October 6, 2015 at 15:19
Very wise saying and so true
LikeLiked by 1 person
October 6, 2015 at 15:50
Teacher said that in Sunday school and I thought it was pretty smart
October 6, 2015 at 21:49
But what if you’re a Muslim or a Jew or a Buddhist or a…? What is your advice to them? Believe their beliefs? Wouldn’t following this advice condemn billions to eternal torture?
October 7, 2015 at 04:30
Well, considering this seems pretty clearly addressed to my Christian readers, your question is not really relevant, but thanks for reading.
October 7, 2015 at 05:02
I understand that this was addressed to your Christian readers. But the question is still relevant. Is this good advice or not?
October 7, 2015 at 05:28
No, it is not good advice. For my Christian readers it is excellent advice.
For my non Christian readers, there are other messages for them.
Your question, in fact, is not relevant at all to this post. You want it to be relevant, but it is not. Not to be curt, David, but last time I checked the writer of a post determines the intent, not the reader. By the context in which it appears, the audience is obvious. By clarification in this comment thread, the audience is obvious. You, however, don’t want it to be obvious, as if you can shade this into me telling non believers to stick to their non belief, then voila! I am suddenly responsible for the damnation of millions.
No cigar here my friend, for you.
October 7, 2015 at 17:33
“No, it is not good advice. For my Christian readers it is excellent advice.”
Ah, now I understand. For those who believe as you do, you say…don’t question, don’t doubt. For those who do not believe as you do, you say…question and doubt. It’s excellent advise, but only if others believe as you do. Is that about right?
“You, however, don’t want it to be obvious, as if you can shade this into me telling non believers to stick to their non belief, then voila! I am suddenly responsible for the damnation of millions.”
I wasn’t trying to shade anything or not be obvious. I was simply applying the “excellent” advice to everyone. Excellent advice is excellent advise, right? Good for the goose, good for the gander.
October 7, 2015 at 17:39
“You tell me how, for those who are believers, and do believe God’s Word is true, that this fails to be good counsel. ”
Since I assume that this would apply to be as well as an alleged “framer,” I’ll take a stab at this. I think that the answer is a simple one. It fails to be good counsel if your beliefs are in error.
October 7, 2015 at 08:14
David, this is an excellent question to pose, it really hits on to core of the matter, which is that a belief is helpful if true, but if the belief is not true well then….
This is why I have spent much time on various blogs addressing whether or not the Bible is true. To me that is the critical question to address. What evidence would be sufficient to confirm the Bible as true? Or what evidence would be sufficient to prove the Bible is not true?
For Wally’s attention I will ask, what evidence are you able to present to a person of another faith to prove to them that the Bible is true and their Holy Book(s) are false?
October 7, 2015 at 08:44
Peter there is plenty but I am not addressing that here. If you want to prove the Bible false write a blog and do it. You have been back and forth on this issue a thousand times. Clearly you don’t want these answers but merely a forum for atheist evangelism. Pick another blog. I wrote this to teach those who do believe. Peace
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October 10, 2015 at 08:35
“clearly you do not want these answers but merely a forum for atheist evangelism”
Perhaps you are correct about my motivation, Wally, I am really not sure. What I do know is that whenever I raise issues the responses rarely address the issues raised, but rather typically to dismiss it with a proverbial wave of the hand.
October 10, 2015 at 08:44
Peter like a told David. If the shoe does not fit don’t wear it. I understand you are confused and can respect that. But honestly Peter when a person who is really looking for answers shows up in the same cloud as those only here to harass and acts the same way it becomes hard to tell the difference. For instance how can I address you as a person when as we speak others are obviously trying to interfere?
October 7, 2015 at 03:30
October 7, 2015 at 04:29
Thanks Brother Jim
October 7, 2015 at 05:39
We should believe our beliefs
Based upon, what, Wally?
October 7, 2015 at 05:45
Let me say the same thing to you as I said to David. You two don’t get to frame the terms of this discussion. That is your favorite thing, isn’t it? Completely reframe the context of a post so that a believer is chasing your rabbit trails around endlessly. Guess what? You don’t get to do that.
This is directed towards those who believe The Bible. They should rest firm in their convictions, and maintain their faith and trust that their God is true. Period.
Now. Your turn. You tell me how, for those who are believers, and do believe God’s Word is true, that this fails to be good counsel. Remember the terms as set. Believers…who believe God’s Word. Those are the terms of discussion, as that is what this post was about.
October 7, 2015 at 06:00
Sure. No problem.
It fails because:
1. It encourages belief in the supernatural which is unverified and non falsifiable.
Exactly the same as Ouiji Boards, Faith-healing, Tarot Cards, The Power 0f Crystals and Voodoo. All utter bull-dust.
2: Because this belief is generally indoctrinated it begins with children – this is abuse.
3. Because it eschews much of science and elevates ridiculous religious text that claims Dinosaurs lived with humans, states that Divine Command Theory is morally acceptable, that the entire world ( bar one family) went extinct in a global flood enacted by a genocidal meglomaniacal deity.
4. It claims that failure to acknowledge and worship a literary character names Jesus of Nazareth will result in an eternity of torture in a place called Hell, constructed by the father of this Jesus character who also happens to be Jesus too.
There, that’s about all I can type for the moment.
I shall await your response, then we can discuss it further.
October 7, 2015 at 06:19
Nope context is believers who believe God’s word. How is it bad counsel? This is not your forum for atheist evangelism. In the context as stated by me. In that context prove my advice incorrect. Anything besides that will be ignored.
October 7, 2015 at 07:27
This is like counselling children on the veracity of , fairies, Spiderman and Santa Claus.
Or, offering advice to a Haitian on the positive aspects of slaughtering a goat as an aid to curing his gout from overindulgance of home brewed alcohol.
Yes, while you are most definitely ”preaching to your choir,” except that what you preaching is , not to put too fine a point on it, based upon a premise lies, I am sorry to say, thus you are not endeavoring to enlighten or help find truth or in anyway being scrupulously honest.
Thus this is bad counsel. Extremely bad as you are helping to perpetuate lies.
And if this has been pointed put to you – which it has on numerous occasions – then such action is immoral and you are blatantly culpable.
October 7, 2015 at 09:47
I think this verse is worth bringing to your attention especially as what you are posting you believe to be irrefutable.
Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have.. But do this with gentleness and respect, (1 Peter 3:15)
I am not so bothered about the gentleness of your reply but I am keenly interested in an honest answer.
Do you have one, Wally?
October 7, 2015 at 09:52
I have one for you actually. Do you believe that verse to be the inspired Word of God?
October 7, 2015 at 10:15
Of course not. 1 Peter is pseudonymous – a fake – for one thing.
But this has no relevance to the plea within the verse itself, a commendable desire to demonstrate the truth of Christian claims through honest engagement.
October 7, 2015 at 10:19
Well in terms of irony it has much relevance. Just remember the same Word also instructs believers not to cast pearls before swine and to shake the dust of our feet and move on. By the way the one you quoted says be prepared to give an answer not to answer every person every time. Peace
October 7, 2015 at 10:24
Well,naturally you will be inclined to Cherry-Pick and sidestep as the mood takes you. But sadly, once more, you demonstrate your limited understanding of the bible and willingness to ignore calls for honesty when it suits.
Maybe one day you will surprise me in this regard? Who knows?
Ha! I might have known. As I am about to post up pops Colostorm in my drop down notification.
The incoherent driddler has arrived. 🙂
October 7, 2015 at 10:22
Ha. If you were interested in ‘honest engagement,’ you would not be chastising the Creator, which is kinda stupid for any creature to do.
It takes quite a strongman to unseat God from His throne. Last I looked, men are exhausted and have died trying, and God is still keeping the stars in place.
‘Belief’ and ‘doubt.’ Whichever you feed becomes your hearts delight.
October 7, 2015 at 10:28
Hey, Colorstorm, you pedantic old curmudgeonly reprobate, how the hell are you? Still using those high protein enemas?
October 7, 2015 at 10:30
I’ll take the high road and just say hi, lest I try to outdo your foolishness.
And upon further review, the ruling on the field stands: God’s word is good. Very good.
October 7, 2015 at 10:36
And which god might that be, Colorstorm? 🙂
October 7, 2015 at 11:09
Simple answer. Of course there are many gods as you would like to imagine, none of which could lift or create a feather…………
…then there is the living and only true God, in whom, to whom, by whom, and through whom all men have to do.
And His name? Once more easy. His name is Wonderful and manifold depending on the context and according to His pleasure, but know this, He is the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.
October 7, 2015 at 11:13
Are you referring to Yahweh?
October 7, 2015 at 11:19
It all hinges on Genesis 1.1.
Take it or leave it. If you believe it, then the rest is easy. If you do not believe it, no answer of mine will suffice.
And if you do not believe it, then your purpose on blogs like this is clear as a bell.
October 7, 2015 at 11:21
So are you referring to Yahweh, yes or no?
It is a simple question, Colorstorm.
October 7, 2015 at 11:25
ark do you ever actually read comments or just push a hot key and zap a comment into the web? It’s the same words every time. Do they come from the guide for atheist evangelists?
October 7, 2015 at 11:30
I ask direct questions and would hope for honest direct answers to such questions.
Colorstorm is the Master of Obfuscation.
He revels in Double-Speak. It is his rather obnoxious trademark.
So, you tell me; is he referring to Yahweh, yes or no?
October 7, 2015 at 16:41
Wally reading this, and other posts/comments, it seems you increasingly do not want to hear from non-Christians. Why don’t you amend your comment box to say that? Or have a tagline on your blog?
Sort of Christians only welcome, for example?
Because if you don’t want to discuss with non-Christians it would be helpful to say so. Or as has been said before, make your blog private. Keep out the infidels. To be fair, you haven’t gone down the moderation road. Yet.
Anyway, back on topic, that quote is apposite to anyone 🙂 I like it.
October 7, 2015 at 16:52
Thank you for the kind word. And I am perfectly ok with anybody commenting however this is not going to be a forum for atheist evangelism. Legitimate questions are welcome that is not. And there is a difference. And moderation is not so much my style
October 7, 2015 at 17:38
Atheists don’t evangelise. There is no set of beliefs or a conviction to convert. Very big difference.
Any question from a non Xtian is going to be questioning your beliefs and values, it goes without saying.
I’m not really sure you can have it both ways. Why do you think people are trying to change your beliefs? I’m not. I don’t understand them, so I think it is valid to ask questions.
But either it’s ok to comment, or it isn’t. Not to receive a rebuff, saying this post is aimed at Xtians only, which is what a few of your replies to people have now started to say.
October 7, 2015 at 17:44
Well Kate you are incorrect as it is in fact the stated goal of some atheists to De convert Christians. It is also the stated goal of some to mock insult and harass Christians until we shut up. For others it is the stated goal to interfere with the teaching of the Bible by making Christians chase endless rabbit trails. That Kate is fact
October 7, 2015 at 17:48
You obviously read more widely than I do. I haven’t seen anyone say they want Christians to not have the right to believe. Not interfere in secular law, yes. But, if you keep your views to yourselves, no problem. Oh, that is the whole point isn’t it? Evangelism.
October 7, 2015 at 17:45
Also some non believers are on an honest quest to understand. For them I have all day
October 7, 2015 at 17:50
Understand why you believe, yes. But understanding doesn’t mean sharing those beliefs. Still have all day?
October 7, 2015 at 17:59
You share your beliefs with me all the time. We all share our world view with others
October 7, 2015 at 18:02
I have views, opinions, morals, ethics, principles. No beliefs.
October 7, 2015 at 18:04
You have a world view which you share. So do I Do you consider my writing this blog as the imposing my view on others?
October 7, 2015 at 18:14
Hmm. I think when you tell people to be quiet because you aren’t speaking to them, it looks pretty churlish. I don’t argue on matters of religion because I don’t know enough about it. So therefore I just ask questions. I think that’s easy to understand. I can’t speak for others. I think when any religious person, or religious body wants to promote anti-homosexual equal rights, or deny women bodily autonomy, then yes, that is trying to impose a personal (religious) view on others. Homosexual weddings do not affect me, or anyone else, I see no reason to deny other people the same rights as I have. Similarly, women should have full rights to contraception and abortion (preferably free). I don’t need those either, doesn’t mean I don’t think others should have those rights. Why would I take away from people’s rights?
October 7, 2015 at 18:10
Here is one for you Kate. Would you like to see the hunting of animals for food or sport made illegal?
October 7, 2015 at 18:20
Hunting foxes for sport by hounds has been made illegal in the UK. Not that it’s very well policed. It’s a money/county set thing. So, my country has already spoken on that one. Yes, I think it is sick killing animals for sport. And there is no need to hunt them for food in the majority of western civilisations. You should have asked, would I like to see eating animals made illegal!
The bigger issue, is how many more people could be fed worldwide if plant foods were not diverted to animals?
October 7, 2015 at 18:23
Ok I am not a hunter by the way just my thing. But what you just told me is that you would seek to change the law based on drum roll please your world view.
October 8, 2015 at 16:08
And give me one good reason why you would deny homosexuals equal rights, or that women should choose to do what they wish with their body.
October 8, 2015 at 17:13
Kate you have an issue with my world view impacting law. Yet your would as well if you had the chance. That was the only point
October 9, 2015 at 01:37
You are putting words in my mouth. Don’t. I did not say that. Giving my opinion is not seeking to get the law overturned. Nor do I seek to deny others fundamental human rights. You do. If people choose to kill animals, eat them, torture them, that’s their choice. It’s not mine and I think it’s morally wrong. We all have our own moral compass. Yours is determined by a book. Mine is my own. I think my values, ethics and morals stand up as well as anyone else’s. I hold minority views. They will never be mainstream, so it is farcical to suggest that I would impose my views on the rest of the world. All I do, sometimes, is explain why I hold them. And, sometimes, people have said, what I’ve written has made them think, and change their own views/behaviour. Now, can you say that Wally? How many people, who do not share your fundamentalist evangelical crusading Christian perspective, have told you that what you have written has made them change their perspective? Surely that’s better than forcing a view or a belief onto someone?
October 9, 2015 at 06:57
Kate, you clearly said you support making the hunting of animal illegal. Clearly. That is based on your world view. Why is your world view okay when it comes to influencing law and mine is not. That’s a simple question.
October 8, 2015 at 16:55
Reading this discussion I think it worthwhile to clarify one or two things, for the benefit of beleivers and non believers alike.
The express intent of Religious Evangelism such as Christianity is to spread this belief system across the globe.
This is all part of the Grand Commission.
In the past, this was performed largely by missionaries.
Although missionary work continues across the globe the internet has now become a powerful tool in the Evangelist’s arsenal.
If a Christian is not ”sharing the gospel” then he or she is not performing his solemn Christian duty as commanded by the biblical character, Jesus of Nazareth. And failure to at least try to bring every ”stray lamb” into the ”Fold” ultimately means that the ”Lost” will be eternally damned to Hell.
This, whether you like it or invite it, or believe it or consider it utter tripe,a Christian’s sworn duty is to try to Save your Soul.
And for many people, this means, God’s Law before Man’s law. Thus we occasionally have a Kim Davies situation.
As a non religious person I object to this.
I object to Christianity (or any religion) being subtly insinuated upon society, and I object most vehemently that this is indoctrinated – however subtly – into children by people who function largely on faith and are willfully ignorant of certain areas of science and even their own religion.
This is why an atheist, such as myself , will venture onto a religious post such as this, not to convert – I could not care what an adult believes, providing they do not expect others to believe it as a matter of course, but to challenge assertions. And most importantly to draw attention to such people who threaten children with eternal damnation and torture for not believing.
October 10, 2015 at 09:25
… you clearly said you support making the hunting of animal illegal. Clearly. That is based on your world view. Why is your world view okay when it comes to influencing law and mine is not. That’s a simple question.
I’ll have a crack at this if may?
Hunting for sport is barbaric and sick. It has no place in any society, and anyone who indulges in it needs to be legally obliged to undergo some sort of psychological training.
The goal of imposing Islam on a society is barbaric and sick. It has no place in any society, and anyone who indulges in it needs to be legally obliged to undergo some sort of psychological training.
The goal of introducing Christianity to every society is righteous and a moral obligation for every follower of Jesus Christ, our saviour and Lord. It is a fact that humans are all sinners and thus need to be saved lest they end in Hell to be tortured for eternity. All children must be introduced to the fact that they are sinners and in mortal danger of losing their soul as soon as they are understand the concepts of right and wrong. Faith in God is paramount to ensure eternal life.
Spot the Hypocrisy.
October 10, 2015 at 09:32
I sure did spot it. It’s ok to enforce your world view on law. Got it
October 10, 2015 at 09:38
Ah … just the sort of answer I expected from one such as you. Well done, Wally, you never fail to disappoint.
It must make you so proud.
A shining example to ignorance and callousness.
October 8, 2015 at 05:13
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